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  1. #1
    SDK46's Avatar
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    Let's re-write history

    Let's re-write history.

    1956...bad news for San Francisco as Russell strains a quadricep just before halftime. Iowa goes inside the entire 2nd half with the fabulous five ultimately winning 83-71.

    1970....Pembrook Burroughs MISSES the last-second tip-in and the Hawks survive. Iowa routes Kentucky 110-100, then St. Bonnie's by 18. The team concept vs team concept....Freddy Brown goes wild with 52 points and Iowa upsets UCLA 85-80.

    1980...Lester comes back 100% from an earlier knee tweak. In the NCAA semi's, he ultimately out-duals Griffith who fouls out. Iowa goes on to win 85-80. In the finals, in another UCLA matchup, Iowa is not to be denied, plays suffocating defense and Vince Brooks hits for 32 as Iowa wins going away 70-59.

    1987...Iowa gets three key baskets late in the second half by Roy Marble and they hold off UNLV 88-84 in Seattle to advance to the Final Four. Iowa wins the rubber match form IU 102-97, then gains and keeps a 10-point lead throughout the final game versus Syracuse to win 83-73.

    Four national titles and Iowa is considered to be one of the blue-bloods in NCAA BB.
    College 1-A football… the only sport on the planet in which a team can finish a season undefeated and be deprived a championship.

  2. #2

    Re: Let's re-write history

    yeah but that's alot of what ifs...

  3. #3
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    Re: Let's re-write history

    While we're at it, let's just say Jermaine Wallace's shot from the corner didn't go in either.



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  4. #4

    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by storminspank View Post
    While we're at it, let's just say Jermaine Wallace's shot from the corner didn't go in either.
    But that team had no shot at a national title. The others did. Of course it's speculation, but his point is a good one - it can be that close sometimes.

  5. #5

    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by homes View Post
    But that team had no shot at a national title. The others did. Of course it's speculation, but his point is a good one - it can be that close sometimes.
    Im young so idk much about those other teams, but I wouldn't say that team had no shot at a NC. They were a 3 seed and had a good experienced team, crazier things have happened.

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    SDK46's Avatar
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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by storminspank View Post
    While we're at it, let's just say Jermaine Wallace's shot from the corner didn't go in either.
    And Monroe (NC State) doesn't go for 40 against us in 1989. We might have won the east bracket.
    College 1-A football… the only sport on the planet in which a team can finish a season undefeated and be deprived a championship.

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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Fun speculation..and yes those things could have happened. More relevant perhaps is if Pierre Pierce had signed with Illinois instead of Iowa and did the same sh** there that he did here.

  8. #8
    Hawke's Avatar
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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Instead of becoming an AD, Evy kept coaching and Iowa became a football powerhouse throughout the 60's & 70's. And beyond.

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    Re: Let's re-write history

    thx SDK..

    a great proposition or supposition for success in NCAA Division 1 Men's College over the years.. I've got some other thoughts over the years that suggest the Hawkeyes are not really that much different from the Kansas JayHawks or the UNC TarHeels ( the dookies later) and how 1 or 2 plays in six or seven games would have changed BB history.

    I'm too lazy tonight get into any detail but would add a couple of things that would have changed history..

    the absolute screw job to Connie Hawkins

    Sam Williams and James Speed

    and some other details you guys haven't gotten quite right.

    later

  10. #10

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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronzuriel View Post
    thx SDK..

    a great proposition or supposition for success in NCAA Division 1 Men's College over the years.. I've got some other thoughts over the years that suggest the Hawkeyes are not really that much different from the Kansas JayHawks or the UNC TarHeels ( the dookies later) and how 1 or 2 plays in six or seven games would have changed BB history.

    I'm too lazy tonight get into any detail but would add a couple of things that would have changed history..

    the absolute screw job to Connie Hawkins

    and other details you guys haven't gotten quite right.
    What on Mars or Jupiter are you talking about. Connie Hawkins FLUNKED every course his first semester at Iowa. He had F midterm grades in every subject the Spring semester, and got the official warning that he would not be allowed to register for summer school or the coming Fall semester unless he obtained a 2.0 average. He packed his posessions and left campus within less than a week, with more than a month remaining in the school year. He was not & could not become eligible for re-admission without remedial work first.

    Two months later he was named as a subject of interest by the NY District Attorney in an inquiry into alleged point-shaving and other law violations involving NYC HS basketball games in which he played. While he was not indicted or ever prosecuted it was obvious that Hawkins would not play a single game of college basketball anywhere, anytime. He joined the hyarlem Globetrotters, then a year later signed with the Pittsburgh team in the ABA (rival league to the NBA in the 1960s).

    Recruiting Hawkins was the kind of blunder than the terribly young & inexperienced Sharm Scheuerman made too frequently. Such misjudgments got him fired as the Hawkeye basketball coach; but he didn't learn his lesson enough until he subsequently lost his realtor's license and fled Iowoa to Colorado.

  11. #11

    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerhawk View Post
    What on Mars or Jupiter are you talking about. Connie Hawkins FLUNKED every course his first semester at Iowa. He had F midterm grades in every subject the Spring semester, and got the official warning that he would not be allowed to register for summer school or the coming Fall semester unless he obtained a 2.0 average. He packed his posessions and left campus within less than a week, with more than a month remaining in the school year. He was not & could not become eligible for re-admission without remedial work first.

    Two months later he was named as a subject of interest by the NY District Attorney in an inquiry into alleged point-shaving and other law violations involving NYC HS basketball games in which he played. While he was not indicted or ever prosecuted it was obvious that Hawkins would not play a single game of college basketball anywhere, anytime. He joined the hyarlem Globetrotters, then a year later signed with the Pittsburgh team in the ABA (rival league to the NBA in the 1960s).

    Recruiting Hawkins was the kind of blunder than the terribly young & inexperienced Sharm Scheuerman made too frequently. Such misjudgments got him fired as the Hawkeye basketball coach; but he didn't learn his lesson enough until he subsequently lost his realtor's license and fled Iowoa to Colorado.
    .....wow......

  12. #12
    SDK46's Avatar
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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerhawk View Post
    What on Mars or Jupiter are you talking about. Connie Hawkins FLUNKED every course his first semester at Iowa. He had F midterm grades in every subject the Spring semester, and got the official warning that he would not be allowed to register for summer school or the coming Fall semester unless he obtained a 2.0 average. He packed his posessions and left campus within less than a week, with more than a month remaining in the school year. He was not & could not become eligible for re-admission without remedial work first.

    Two months later he was named as a subject of interest by the NY District Attorney in an inquiry into alleged point-shaving and other law violations involving NYC HS basketball games in which he played. While he was not indicted or ever prosecuted it was obvious that Hawkins would not play a single game of college basketball anywhere, anytime. He joined the hyarlem Globetrotters, then a year later signed with the Pittsburgh team in the ABA (rival league to the NBA in the 1960s).

    Recruiting Hawkins was the kind of blunder than the terribly young & inexperienced Sharm Scheuerman made too frequently. Such misjudgments got him fired as the Hawkeye basketball coach; but he didn't learn his lesson enough until he subsequently lost his realtor's license and fled Iowoa to Colorado.
    Recruiting at Iowa

    Excellent article on the history of Iowa basketball recruiting. It indicates CH had troubles with rhetoric only.

    "The experience of Iowa's less successful coaches during the modern era reflect the risks inherent in Iowa's recruiting approach. Sharm Scheurerman recruited Iowa's first bonafide grade A prospect of the modern era--Don Nelson--then supplemented that outstanding recruit with solid subsequent recruiting classes that included three grade B prospects and another grade A--Connie Hawkins. Unfortunately, Hawkins couldn't pass freshman Rhetoric, and the three grade B prospects flunked out at the mid-term of their sophomore season (1961). Nelson's magnificence carried that team to an 18-6 record and 2nd place Big Ten finish, but the nucleus of Scheurerman's program was gutted. Two seasons later, Sharm was history."
    College 1-A football… the only sport on the planet in which a team can finish a season undefeated and be deprived a championship.

  13. #13

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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Quote Originally Posted by SDK46 View Post
    Recruiting at Iowa

    Excellent article on the history of Iowa basketball recruiting. It indicates CH had troubles with rhetoric only.

    "The experience of Iowa's less successful coaches during the modern era reflect the risks inherent in Iowa's recruiting approach. Sharm Scheurerman recruited Iowa's first bonafide grade A prospect of the modern era--Don Nelson--then supplemented that outstanding recruit with solid subsequent recruiting classes that included three grade B prospects and another grade A--Connie Hawkins. Unfortunately, Hawkins couldn't pass freshman Rhetoric, and the three grade B prospects flunked out at the mid-term of their sophomore season (1961). Nelson's magnificence carried that team to an 18-6 record and 2nd place Big Ten finish, but the nucleus of Scheurerman's program was gutted. Two seasons later, Sharm was history."
    Two facts:
    1. In that era the distribution requirements at Iowa required that a freshman "pass out" of Composition & Rhetoric (Comm Skills). Many students did so on the basis of an exam during Orientation prior to their first registration; others were placed in C&R classes according to their level of proficiency as indicated by the exam--those close to passing out in English 10:8, others at lower levels, and the virtually illiterate placed in 10:1 (Hawkins flunked 10:1, was failing it again the second semester when he dropped out). If you were making progress, you could be bumped up to a higher level; and you could "pass out" at any time by passing the exam. The sooner you passed out of C&R the better, because it was the prerequisite for the two semesters (8 credit hours) from the literature course options that were mandatory for ANY degree.

    Sounds like an urban legend but true story. Hawkins was not unique among Iowa athletes of that period in struggling with C&R; Evy's football recruits often spent several semesters getting through C&R. A famous example was All-American guard Calvin Jones, probably the best lineman ever to play at Iowa. Jones was in his fifth semester of C&R (though managing to stay eligible) when he finally "passed out". The Comm Skills instructor who passed him said she did so because "how could you fail someone so imaginative and with such a fine ear for our language that he managed to spell the word coffee without a single correct letter." Jones had spelled it K-A-W-P-H-Y.

    That Hawkins flunked C&R was not a lone transgression; as I pointed out he flunked EVERY course. A major contributing reason was that Sharm had not gotten across to Connie that one of the conditions of playing college hoops was that you have to attend classes, at least show up for tests & turn in papers, etc. Not going to classes was consistent with Hawkins' habits in general: He didn't even know where the (then) new library was located.

    2. I know all this to be true because I was a tutor in the Iowa Athletic Department. It isn't clear what source the quote above is from; the normal practice is to identify the source, as otherwise the reader has no way of knowing if it is legitimate or if the author is credible.

    True, that in this case the author is not saying Hawkins had trouble ONLY with Comm Skills, but that is the obvious inference of singling out his failing grades in C&R. And he certainly seems to be woefully unaware of the stature of Hawkeye basketball at the time: to call Don Nelson the first bigtime recruit of the modern era is an absurd bad-mouthing of some of the most highly regarded prep players of the 1940s & 1950s--Deacon Davis, Nolden Gentry, Tom Payne, Dick Ives, Joe Allen, Joe Washington, All-Americans Chuck Darling, Murray Weir, Herb Wilkinson & Carl Cain.
    Add four of the most highly touted Iowa preps of the era Pinky Clifton, Bill Logan, Hugh Leffingwell & Frank Calsbeek (three became All-Big Ten, Leffingwell--the best of them--died early in his sophomore year from spinal meningitis).

  14. #14
    SDK46's Avatar
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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Excellent posts Tigger. Excellent. Thank you.

    So you're saying it was CH's grades which ultimately got him dismissed, not the point shaving rumors? Maybe a combo of both?
    Last edited by SDK46; 07-13-2010 at 03:34 PM.
    College 1-A football… the only sport on the planet in which a team can finish a season undefeated and be deprived a championship.

  15. #15

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    Re: Let's re-write history

    Whoaa tigger…

    The post began… Let’s re-write history.

    Tigger… thanks for the first hand history of Connie “The HAWK” and his inability to pass rhetoric and was flunking all of his courses. Evidently CH wasn’t ready for college level courses and shouldn’t have been admitted .

    IS that Connie’s fault?

    That’s why we would like to re-write history. What if some of your colleagues got it right, he was admitted and did pass his freshman year and would have been eligible? Can we as Hawk fans even imagined?

    Did Connie conspire with NYC gamblers? For what? to throw high school and freshman college games?

    The point of this thread is to re-write history.

    Tigger

    Please never die and keep on posting ( I've enjoyed your post at other sites over the years) especially about the history of Iowa athletics and .. ummm academics.

    Any inside info on Sam Williams or James Speed?

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